by Max Barry

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Le Frasco wrote:But you aren't changing anyone's life. That third life wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for those two specific people having it. If I was right now to choose between being born with a birth defect vs not being born at all I'd take the birth defect. After all, the inbred person can later in life choose to commit suicide if they want to. I'd personally be okay with killing off the inbred children that literally have no agency and are braindead, but if they just have some birth defect that makes their life a bit harder I don't see why we should be worried about that when the alternative is them not being born at all.

Plus incest doesn't have to result in a child. Would you allow two brothers to have sex, or two sisters, or a brother and a sister using protection?

Our adult entertainment industry loves twincest. The Visconti Triplets do shows here.

Delta Vega IV wrote:What use would the crystals be if I dunno how to handle them?

Noah had 3 sons in the Ark, and each of the 4 had a wife with him. So you got some diversity there.

I believe it was a minimum of ?99? people to avoid inbreeding when starting a new population.

Arclandia wrote:{OoC: I don't actually perceive The Allied States of Free Market Buisnesses to be anything more than someone's personal experiment in creating the future US wherein it has finished its descent into corporate despotism just to see what that might look like. I have a similar experiment of my own running in The Corporate State of Monetillia. I haven't been able to determine your political views through FMB because whether you RP or don't, you haven't posted things that deviate too far from FMB's ideological script. I have enjoyed that your posts always have the flavor of FMB even when you're posting OoC.}
{OoC: Nothing's strange about talking to oneself. In fact, my therapists say it's healthy as long as I know all the participants in the conversation are me! What's strange and even a little rude is bloating the forums going back and forth with oneself when others could be having a real conversation with each other.}

I do actually believe in capitalism—even believe that monopolies are okay as long as they're privately owned, but I also believe in a strong benevolent government. Basically I believe it's the governments sole purpose to keep its citizens alive, healthy, and provided with the best opportunities available. Housing, healthcare, food, water, and education are basic rights, so the government should provide them.
I edited because too long is bad for comprehension.

Dernel wrote:Why take the risk? Again, its not just the lives of the two, its the third as well, what reasoning can you give for changing someones life in a way that puts them at a disadvantage compared to a normal person born of a normal family? Is it not the point of progress to attempt to prevent things like this? Is the point of progress, science, and medicine not to minimize the chances of someone having an issue no matter how big or small? Why take the risk, and throw the progress we have made as a species out the window simply for an urge that can likely be satiated elsewhere in a more respectable manner?

You cannot guarantee that webbed toes or a seemingly equally unimportant issue will be the change, or even the only change. As you perform these actions, you increase the possibility of ruining someones life, and that is the issue. Even if it were just a 1% for a normal child to have a severe issue, by having a child created through incest you increase that chance. That is the scientific reason why it is immoral, this doesn't even begin to explain the societal or religious reasons that something like this is immoral.
put in child terms:
You cannot encourage bad behavior with more bad behavior.

In the end you asked for a reason why it is considered wrong, I have given my reasons, others can if they choose, but I will not go on further as this is simply an opinionated topic that likely neither will change. (At least I certainly will not)

Well, what causes the increased risk? Is it an increased chance of new mutations?

Delta Vega IV wrote:What use would the crystals be if I dunno how to handle them?

Noah had 3 sons in the Ark, and each of the 4 had a wife with him. So you got some diversity there.

This is the consultation. Instruction costs extra.

Delta Vega IV wrote:What use would the crystals be if I dunno how to handle them?

Noah had 3 sons in the Ark, and each of the 4 had a wife with him. So you got some diversity there.

Is that enough? Science says... Not enough!

Dernel wrote:I believe it was a minimum of ?99? people to avoid inbreeding when starting a new population.

That depends on how you classify inbreeding.

"The life of a single human being is worth a million times more than all the property of the richest man on earth." - Che Guevara

Surd wrote:"The life of a single human being is worth a million times more than all the property of the richest man on earth." - Che Guevara

A million times is way too low.

Free Market Buisnesses wrote:A million times is way too low.

Hear here! Each person is priceless.

Axixic wrote:Easy to call names on the anonymous internet. How courageous and classy you must be IRL

ur mad lol

Venacia wrote:ur mad lol

Bugger off.
Don't make fun of idiots, it's not nice.

Free Market Buisnesses wrote:Bugger off.

ok

Post self-deleted by Axixic.

Venacia wrote:ur mad lol

Free Market Buisnesses wrote:Bugger off.
Don't make fun of idiots, it's not nice.

Yeah, The Lip💋Service Democracy of Axixic is our nearest neighbor, and we'd love it if they weren't inspired to war due to diplomatic mishandling. Kthxbye.

Arclandia wrote:Yeah, The Lip💋Service Democracy of Axixic is our nearest neighbor, and we'd love it if they weren't inspired to war due to diplomatic mishandling. Kthxbye.

I can help

Arclandia wrote:Yeah, The Lip💋Service Democracy of Axixic is our nearest neighbor, and we'd love it if they weren't inspired to war due to diplomatic mishandling. Kthxbye.

Axixic is a nation of militant pacifists. We won’t kill you; we’ll just make you wish we had.

Axixic wrote:Axixic is a nation of militant pacifists. We won’t kill you; we’ll just make you wish we had.

Now that's a market I don't believe has been tapped into yet, so how'dya do it?

Free Market Buisnesses wrote:Now that's a market I don't believe has been tapped into yet, so how'dya do it?

Easy, our nation’s Founding Father served in the jungles of Vietnam as an Infantry Sergeant with the Paratroops. The vast majority of our people pattern themselves after him - avoid a fight when you can, when you can’t win quickly by disabling not killing. Sounds of “One Tin Soldier” by Coven playing quietly in the background.

Sounds suspiciously like dismemberment

Axixic wrote:Easy, our nation’s Founding Father served in the jungles of Vietnam as an Infantry Sergeant with the Paratroops. The vast majority of our people pattern themselves after him - avoid a fight when you can, when you can’t win quickly by disabling not killing. Sounds of “One Tin Soldier” by Coven playing quietly in the background.

That doesn't sound particularly pacifist... But with enough PR it can! By god, I— we are going to make so much money!

New Vedan wrote:From what I can tell it's something that used to be common but has become more rare over the years. You see the south has always attracted less immigrants and internal migrants than most other regions of the united states, in fact for a long time we exported more people than we took in. Theres a myriad of reasons for that, in the antebellum period slavery and our lack of industry pretty much eliminated most of the lower class jobs available. So newly arrived immigrants went to the north where they could find work. Then after the war was over slavery was gone, but so was most of the regions wealth. The people already here took up all the remaining jobs and were quite hostile to outsiders trying to move in. Then a few decades later the depression hit and screwed up economic prospects nationwide, and after that once we had gotten back on our feet we still had jim crow and segregation, which forced our black population into whatever low paying job they could find, which made it almost as hard for a newly arrived immigrant to find a job as it was during the antebellum period. So immigration and internal migration both only really picked up after the end of segregation and the collapse of the rust belt, which we have slowly been replacing.

The result of that is that white southerners are for the most part descended from old pre revolution settlers. If you look at a map of most reported ethnicity in america (ex German,french,spanish, etc) the southeast is the only area that is still majority British american. Now if you remember the British largely stopped coming to America after the revolution, they had there own settler colonies after all. So what that means is that we are still mostly descended from the British settlers that lived here before the revolutionary war, and that we have been marrying among each other for the last 200 years. There was not a overwhelming abundance of pre revolutionary colonists, so some inbreeding became inevitable. Especially when you consider that at the time there was no stigma behind it at all, and that people did not usually travel very far so they had to marry whoever lived close enough to them.

Nowadays the south is changing somewhat. We have more immigrants and internal migrants moving in than we ever have before, and interracial relationships are no longer forbidden on Paine of death like they were in our grandfathers time. And some people have become self conscious about the inbred southerner stereotype. So its becoming more and more rare, but due to our history we still tend to be more tolerant of cousin marriages than most other areas of the united states. But close family relationships, such as siblings or parents, have always been taboo no matter what time period.

I suppose that another example would be Rocker Jerry Lee Lewis marrying his thirteen year old first-cousin in Mississippi. But it was never my intent to launch the RMB into a discussion of the Jukes and Kallikaks.
Free Market Buisnesses wrote:Yeah, it'd be expected not funny.
But that'll be fixable soon enough, so who cares? Also, does that statistic apply to new mutations or recessive genes?
To my knowledge the Denisovans, Neanderthals, and Homo sapiens are/were all subspecies of human. I wouldn't compare that to modern ethnicities or whatever, because that isn't a good can of worms to open and reeks of white mans burden and imperialism.Subspecies, so they'd be Homo sapiens denisova probably.
They were doing it to keep out genetic defects. Their version of a defect included being black, but still to remove defects. They were slightly insane—shocking I know—so they might've considered encouraging inbreeding at some point, although considering the "freedom" they gave their scientists, that would have been short lived.
Now I may believe in heavy welfare, high taxes, and in cameras recording everything—I wouldn't call it surveillance, because it's complicated—but I am still a liberal damn it, so let people do whatever they want; we can fix it later.

I doubt that the ancient humanoids cared much about the dangers of inbreeding, but obviously some of the human hybrids with the other species were not sterile, because modern humans outside of sub-Sahara Africa still carry traces of their DNA.
Free Market Buisnesses wrote:This is a puppet of my main, but my main isn't in Lazarus, so I'm using this to talk. Plus corporate RP + this nation just makes sense. I think I posted as Mesilatia here once, but that was unusual. Also, seriously, what do you think my political views are? Also, what's strange about talking to yourself?

We always assume that any nation not in the World Assembly is a puppet. And we talk to ourselves too!

Free Market Buisnesses wrote:This is the consultation. Instruction costs extra.

Sorry then, I'll just have to decline your offer.

Moaning Lisa wrote:

We always assume that any nation not in the World Assembly is a puppet. And we talk to ourselves too!

Oh no

Hive minds be like

Moaning Lisa wrote:And we talk to ourselves too!

Small Brother doesn't talk to himself. He has a special aide to listen to him, so that he can talk to the aide rather than to himself. When the aide is off-work, Small brother calls the aide's phone's answering machine and records his thoughts. It is the aide's job to bring the tape next morning so small brother can hear what he said to the aide the day (or night) before. Long live Small Brother.

and crap, I'm back to Liberal Democratic Socialists
Apparently, remaining as a Left-Wing Utopia is fragile

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